Biography - Johnnie Fingers

An interview by Bruce Dancis
with Johnnie Fingers in June 1981

Was there a lot of musical talent in your family?

Nobody in the family really played an instrument. When I was about eight, my mother bought an acoustic piano. She came from a musical background. Her brother was a conductor for the Indianapolis Philharmonic. He's Irish, but he went to work over there. All her family played piano and sang. But I was the only one in the immediate family who stuck to the piano. A woman used to come and teach us at home. I hated it. She would arrive at some obscure hour, just as I was about to settle into a TV show like The FBI Story or something like that. At school you'd miss class to go off and do your piano lessons, which was great.

Were you always into music, even before then?

Yeah. I was always into music, but I hated the actual lessons. They always seemed to be very drab and boring. They were always classical, doing scales all the time, just menial tasks that you had to do, never anything you particularly wanted to do. I gave up the lessons, but kept on playing the things I wanted to play. I used to buy books of Beatles songs and work up chords. I got hours of pleasure just sitting there working out things. I was into the Beatles when I was young. I was a member of their fan club. I hated the Stones until I was about 14. I found the Beatles stuff too difficult to play, because their chord arrangements at the time were very different from your normal three chords stuff. So I used to play blues, 'cause that was easy.

Were you listening to any particular blues piano players at the time, such as Otis Spann?

Nobody. I was always interested in sounds as opposed to musicians. I wasn't really aware of musicians at all. The Beatles are crap musicians, but great songwriters. Rock music has really very little to do with music [laughs]. It's not a musician's thing. It goes further than that; it has another sphere. It's more the character; it has more to do with feel, like blues. It doesn't have very much to do with how good you are technically.

When did you decide to become a professional keyboardist?

Six guys who were just friends - none of us had ever played in bands before decided to get a band together. We were all kind of closet musicians. We all played at home. This was early 1976. We were all equally bad. We had no one to lean on, so we kind of progressed together, as opposed to having a guy who was a virtuoso and pissed off at the inadequacies of the rest of the band.

What had you been doing at the time ?

I had just finished architectural college in Dublin. I had a course in architectural technology. Then I did architecture for a year and the band was going at the same time. The band had become very successful while 1 was at college, and I couldn't bear the idea of getting the degree, and then 9 to 5 for the rest of your life and a house in suburbia. That whole idea seemed so mindless. The band was like salvation for me. Ever since I was a kid I've followed bands. When I look back now, it seems logical that music was the best thing for me to get into.

Your earlier material contained a lot of R&B elements.

The first album [The Boomtown Rats] is music we had been playing in schools and pubs.

That came out in 1977 ?

Yeah. That's where we were at the time. It's very rough and it's R&B. That was the only music we could play and that we had a feeling for at the time. It was the most important music for us. All the other bands around Dublin at the time were into jazz-rock and country rock, and we hated them and they hated us. They thought we couldn't play, that we were useless. We probably looked good, but that used to annoy them as well. I always thought that jazz-rock was so self-indulgent and boring. It never seems to have anything to say or contribute to people's lives. It's just some guy playing minor sevenths and things like that.

What keyboard players were you listening to at this point?

Bill Payne. I used to like Little Feat a lot. They're fairly jazz-rock [laughs], but they're the ultimate musician's band. They were quite big in England in the mid-70s.. I was heavily into Bowie at the time too. I liked Mick Garson, who was his keyboard player. He was very jazzy, but he was different because he did jazz over a rock bass.

When you were starting out, what keyboards were you playing?

I bought this awful electric piano called a Tiger, which was an integrated circuit thing. It was vicious. I don't know where it was made. I just thought I must buy an electric piano. It wasn't touch-sensitive and it sounded more like a harpsichord than a piano. I got rid of that quick. Then I had a standard model Wurlitzer piano, which is a nuisance because it's always going out of tune.

What were you playing on the first album?

I played acoustic piano in the studio, and a Rhodes. I played a bit of Hammond organ, a C-3, but it was mostly piano. That first album was really rough. All of us were really afraid of the studio at the time. None of us had ever been in a studio. We didn't even know what a producer was or what role he was supposed to play. It took ages for us to lay down backing tracks.

Where was it recorded?

It was in Cologne [West Germany]. Mutt Lange, who produced the album, had done a session with Graham Parker And The Rumour in the same studio. He had just done what turned out to be their biggest hit at the time - "Hold Back The Night," I think. Then we went to record there 'cause he thought it was good. It turned out to be a terrible place. Everything kept breaking down, and there were power cuts in town, which just ruins everything you've set up. But we were lucky in the sense that we had played for a year around Irish clubs, unnoticed by the English press. A lot of our contemporaries in London found it very hard to live up to what the press wrote about them. Ireland doesn't have a rock market at all. There wasn't even a rock circuit; we established it by going on a tour of Ireland, something which had never been done, along with a country rock band and a funk band.

But Ireland has produced a lot of big names in rock, like Van Morrison, Thin Lizzy, Rory Gallagher ...

All those guys made their name outside of Ireland. Them, which was Van Morrison's band from Belfast, went over to England and sought a contract. London is the centre of the music business for Europe, just like LA or New York is here. If you have any ambition at all, you have to go to England. A few of our contemporary bands from England, whom we had read about in the English press, came over to Ireland to play gigs. We thought that we were a hundred percent better, and here they were getting loads of press and selling records, so we felt we'd better have a go at it. We set ourselves a list of things the band must have if we were going to succeed. Within the year we would have to have a contract, a record in the charts, and appearances on a few TV programs. And we did all those things within six months. Things really moved fast for us. When "Looking Out For Number One" [from The Boomtown Rats] came out as a single, it went straight into the Top 50; in fact, it got to number eight. And we were the first new wave band to play Top Of The Pops.

When did you begin adding new keyboards?

it was after the first album. All I had on the road then was a Wurlitzer and a Vox organ, which made an awful racket. I had H&H transistor amps, which are really popular in England and Europe. I got a Yamaha CP-70 out of C135 when we did an American tour. I couldn't really afford one at the time, but the Yamaha was everything I ever wanted. I grew up on acoustic piano, and it seemed the most natural thing to play. You can't bring an acoustic piano on the road because you'd have to get it tuned every gig. When you're a small band you just can't bring something that's so big. It takes up too much space in the van. I always considered the Wurlitzer and the others kind of temporary. The Yamaha is so compact, and the action is great; everything about it is almost better than an acoustic. It's very reliable, and the strings break very rarely. They're not hard to replace either.

What else do you have in your set-up?

I've got an ARP Odyssey, an ARP Omni, a Hohner Clavinet/Pianet Duo, which is a good instrument but very fragile on the road, and a Prophet-5 synthesizer, which is a brilliant instrument but is always breaking down. Even when it arrived from America, it was broken down. I've had so many problems that I don't know whether to keep it or not.

What in particular breaks down?

The tuning. It goes out of tune all the time. You lose programs in the memory. It just doesn't hold up, because it's so delicate. But it's a brilliant instrument anyway, the best synthesizer one could have.

How do you set all this up onstage?

I face the audience from the side. The Prophet is on top of the Yamaha. About 25 feet behind that and to my right I have the Hohner Duo, and the ARP Odyssey. On my left, 1 have the ARP Omni string machine.

What kind of amplification to you use?

An H&H Mosfet, an 800-watt transistor power amp. It's quite small, with four 14" speakers, also H&H, and two top-range speakers on top of that. The mixer desk has eight channels and a little digital module that gives you a harmonizing effect. It has a repeat on it and flanging, all built in, and it's only about six inches square and four inches deep, so it just fits into the desk. It's brilliant for keyboards because it's really clean. You don't get any distortion whatsoever.

Are you sticking to the factory presets on the Prophet?

Yeah, I don't need any modifications at all. I had built bass pedals into the Vox organ, which I don't have on the road anymore, cause it breaks down all the time. You could play a bass octave with a 16' and a 8', which is really handy. But that's the only modification I've had.

Do you have a favourite keyboard instrument?

I suppose I'm really based on piano, and I think the Yamaha is the best of all. Their acoustic pianos are brilliant. Steinway has lost its legs compared to it.

Did you use a Yamaha acoustic or the electric grand on "Rat Trap"?

It's an acoustic. As it turns out, there's no difference between the Yamaha electric grand and an ordinary acoustic grand piano in the studio; you can make them sound exactly alike. A lot of people use a graphic equalizer on the electric piano to get a perfect sound wave.

Did you use a Yamaha acoustic on the piano introduction to "I Don't Like Mondays"?

Yeah. There was a slight touch of the Eventide Harmonizer on it, like l.00 or O.99 or 1.01 on the digital readout, and a bit of flanging, so the piano sounds very lush and really clear. We had done the song on the [previous] American tour, and I think I got it on the second take when we recorded it. We just did the piano, and then Bob [Geldof] did the vocal. There were a few good synthesizer string things, but they didn't sound as good as actual stringed instruments, so we went for violins, 'cello, and viola.

How do you do the song live?

I play piano and Pete [Briquette, bass guitarist] plays the Omni. It's more or less the same as the record.

What are you playing in "Sleep (Fingers' Lullaby)," from Fine Art Of Surfacing?

On the start of that, I played a piano and a Roland Jupiter they just had in the studio, for a kind of dreamy, tape-running-backwards sound. The acoustic piano then plays the backing rhythm all the way through. I play a bass pattern on Minimoog for the chorus. At the end, there are a few noises that I got out of the ARP Odyssey. Getting sounds on synthesizers is a whole new science. I'd been used to playing either organ or acoustic piano, straight instruments that had their own sounds. I had an ARP Odyssey and had messed around with that for about two weeks as my first real introduction to synthesizer. I could get a few sounds that I enjoyed. I used the actual key book that ARP sent you. If you were good at science, it was easy, but I was crap at science in school, so all I can go on is what sounds good to my ear.

Why didn't you take the Minimoog on the road with you?

Anything I did on it I can get on the Prophet just as well. The Minimoog is a great little synthesizer. It has a most ballsy sound. But I hate the idea of being like Rick Wakeman; I'd love to have only one keyboard on the road.

Is there anything else you'd like to add to your collection anyway?

I haven't got a Hammond organ. I'm heavily into a lot of Stax and Motown stuff, so I'd love to have one of those.

What sparked this interest?

You go through phases. A year or two ago I listened to an awful lot of Kraftwerk and German synthesizer stuff, and Brian Eno, though Eno's stuff is a bit like wallpaper. And now I like a lot of Motown stuff.

What songs would you pick as examples of your finest playing?

That's a really hard question, because after listening back to records you always think, "God, why did I do that? That sounds awful!" But I like "Mondays." I think it sounds a bit simplistic at times, but it's better that way. I am not a technically great musician, but that doesn't worry me. On the first album It sound as if I wasn't very confident of what I was playing. For a start, you can hardly hear me on lots of songs.

Was your part just mixed down?

No. It just sounds personally to me as if I was nervous in the studio, which I was at the time. It's a pity, because for that very reason I just can't listen to it. I was so used to playing live gigs, where you get a reaction or a rapport with the audience. You're not isolated. When you went into the studio, it was just you and a microphone. That was very hard to get over. For a band that had just come from a club into that situation, it was really hard.

But on what songs do you like your playing?

I like all the songs on The Fine Art Of Surfacing. It's the first album I can actually listen to and think it's good. I don't know why. I did a lot of work on that record.

You seem willing on many of your records to submerge your performance to help solidify the overall sound of the band. Does this reflect a particular philosophy of what rock should be about?

I suppose so. If a song sounds like a guitar song, it should just be guitars. A piano might add something musical, but it would take away from the whole impression that the song would leave, or the feel a lyric is trying to convey. So why try and stuff in something that shouldn't be there? I suppose that's the difference between rock and roll and jazz. Rock and roll should be basic, conveying one point. It's ultimately a dance music, really.

But don't you ever get the desire to stretch out a bit in live performance?

I do. When I'm playing live I never like to play the same thing every night. To help myself become a better player, I try to think of new things to do without ruining the context of the song.

Do you think you're improving as a player?

Oh,'yeah. I go through long periods, though, where I think, "God, I'm flogging a dead horse here" [laughs], but then you listen to a tape of you playing six months before and you think, "I'm playing much better now than I did then."

Do you practice much?

That's one thing I miss when I'm touring. When I was at home I used to sit and play the piano for three or four hours, just enjoying myself alone, with nobody around. I never get the opportunity to do that.

What would you play?

Anything. If I heard a song on the radio, I'd tape it and try to learn the chords. it didn't have to be piano music; it could be anything. But I never get the opportunity to do that, which is sad. I never play any classical things. I used to be able to sight-read a bit, but now maybe I could make out the top line of something at a slow pace. It's just like reading; if you don't keep it up, you lose it.

Do you do any exercises?

Very little. I keep on thinking about how I should be doing scales every day to keep my fingers nimble. But if you're playing every day onstage, you get plenty of practice, I suppose.

How about songwriting? Would you like to be doing more of that?

I'm really lazy about songwriting. I suppose there is financial gain if you write songs, but it's something I couldn't really give a damn about. I have a load of songs, but I can never write lyrics, because I'm not a wordy person. Doing lyrics is different from just rambling on about something. When you try to convey something in a verse, it comes out and you say, "That sounds wimpy," or "That's not what I want to say at all." I'm not worried about it, though.

Which keyboardists do you respect most at this point in your career?

Bill Payne. Mick Dawson. I like Ian Stewart, who sometimes plays with the Stones. He's got a real feel for rock and roll. And I like Roy Bittan, who's with Bruce Springsteen.

That's interesting, because some people claim the Boomtown Rats sound like Springsteen.

I can understand them saying that. That came about when we did Joey's On The Street Again". We had never heard of Springsteen at the time. We thought it was like Van Morrison [laughs]. I still think that Springsteen rips off Van Morrison, who came a couple of years before him. Those songs that deal with people's lives usually sound better in that big band medium. I couldn't give a damn if people say that we're like the Stones or whatever. It doesn't matter. People used to say that Jagger ripped off James Brown or Chuck Berry.

What do you like about Bittan's playing?

He's just a good player. If the piano player sounds confident and melodic, that's the most important thing.. I hate piano players who are flat - the drawing room players. Bittan's very tasteful. I like Bob Andrews [of Graham Parker And The Rumour] a lot too. There are no real contemporaries in my age group who I would say I like that much. Maybe it's because they're contemporaries. These guys like Bob Andrews have been playing for years and years. I'm relatively new to actually playing with a band - I've only been in it for three or four years now - but they've become virtuosos.

Do you prefer live performances to studio sessions?

I always prefer live performances. They're the most important thing. You can never simulate a live performance onto a record, because it's a visual thing, a sound thing, whatever; it's aggressive. You're there. You're watching an audience. When you record, you have to be technically perfect, but also interesting enough so that the people sitting in their rooms will find it exciting enough to listen. But if you're playing live, a lot of those things - how technically great or accurately you play - aren't important. I read an interview with the bass player from Kiss [Gene Simmons], which really summed it up. He said that when he plays Madison Square Garden, a guy 50 feet away from the stage would not notice the fact that he changed from one pickup to the other. Those things are unimportant in-concert, yet they're very important on an album.

Why do you think your band has received, a relatively lukewarm reception in the States, as compared to your large-scale popularity in England and elsewhere?

The reason is that 'I Don't like Mondays," which was a hit in 42 countries around the world, became an embarrassment to some people in America. They thought the lyric was controversial, and Top 40 AM stations refused to play it. [Ed. Note: The song is based on an actual incident in which a teenage girl in San Diego sprayed a school playground with gunfire.] It got onto 60 stations on FM play, but the AM stations refused. But there is a huge vibe about the band in the States. We're making it here anyway. it's a pity that in America the new wave bands haven't been as big as they should be. Now is the time to see these bands, when they're young and they've got a lot to offer. I met an 18-year-old guy in Detroit and asked him what bands he liked, and he said the Stones and the Who, which to me just seems criminal. They're from another generation. He also said the smallest gig he's ever been to was an 18,000-seater, and that's a pity, because he's never experienced a real rock and roll atmosphere, where you come out of a small club with chills up the back of your spine. I think that Springsteen, when he plays a small place, is among the American rock and roll bands who can give that can give that feeling, and that's why he's so well respected.

What other differences do you see between your group and the older rock performers?

For one thing, I could never play with any type of drug or drink in me, and nobody in the band ever does. That's one thing I hate about the so-called "old wavers," old rock and rollers. They think that they play better under those conditions, which is absolute garbage. it's also a rip-off for the person who has given you the supreme compliment of buying a ticket, when you go along and just play sloppy. That's the only difference, I think, between the old wave and the new wave. it's not at the level of, 'Where's my limo?" Nobody particularly cares about those things. The new wave is only new bands. it's a new generation of people who don't know who the Rolling Stones are and have never heard of the Beatles, but are into the Boomtown Rats or Elvis Costello.

So you don't harbor any of the hostility that some young rock musicians have towards older groups?

No, because they're the reason why we're here today. I grew up with them and they were my idols. I still like their albums, but they don't have anything to offer me now.

What are your goals as a musician and as a band member?

To write a few classic songs, I suppose. As a band, to make ourselves valuable to a rock and roll audience, to have something to say, something to offer. That's important.

Would you like to come out with a song that people will remember 15 years after it was released, like the Stones did with "Satisfaction?"

We'd love that. I think it's the ultimate ambition of every band to be that great. The only reason they're that great is because of their musical ability. I don't particularly care about their life styles, but they still produce good music, and I suppose the reason for that is that they got a bit of a kick in the pants from the new wave.

Final question: Why do you wear pyjamas all the time?

I've been asking myself that for a while. I always wore clothes that made people stare at me and say, "God, look at him!" I get off on that, and I hate the idea of being just a face in the crowd and having no identity. I always like to be recognized for something - the way I look, basically. I just can't abide the idea of jeans and a denim shirt and a nice part in your hair. It seems to me that that makes you ditto for so many other people.